3 ways to embody your truth

Catherine Just Sober Artist

I love when I meet other women in long-term recovery from addiction. Catherine Just has become my new bestie, and I hope you’ll fall in love too. She is a wealth of knowledge and a gentle soul. In this podcast episode we covered so much ground, enjoy!

Sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Embody your truth.

Embodying our truth is a journey that begins with self-reflection. We must take time to get to know ourselves and to understand our own unique needs and desires. We must take time to look within and to be honest with ourselves about what we need and want. We must be willing to accept ourselves and our truth, even if it is different from what others may think or believe. We must be open to learning new things and to exploring new perspectives.

Take action

Once we have taken the time to understand ourselves, we can begin to embody our truth. We must take action to create a life that is true to ourselves. We can make choices that reflect our values and beliefs. We can create boundaries and set limits that honor our needs and desires. We can be mindful of our thoughts, feelings, and actions. We can be open to learning more about ourselves and others. We can take action to create a life that is true to ourselves and that is filled with love and understanding.

Cultivate a deep connection

When we embody our truth, we can cultivate a deep connection to the divine spirit. We can be open to receiving guidance, insight, and healing. We can be mindful of our thoughts, feelings, and actions. We can be open to learning more about ourselves and others. We can take action to create a life that is true to ourselves and that is filled with love and understanding.

A journey that requires

Embodying our truth is a journey that requires us to be open to learning, exploring, and growing. It is a journey that requires us to be honest with ourselves and to take action to create a life that is true to ourselves and that is filled with love and understanding. It is a journey that requires us to be mindful of our thoughts, feelings, and actions. It is a journey that requires us to be open to learning more about ourselves and others. Embodying our truth is a journey that can lead us to a life of joy, peace, and fulfillment. It is a journey that can lead us to a life of love, understanding, and connection. It is a journey that can lead us to a life of truth, beauty, and grace. It is a journey that can lead us to a life we are proud to call our own.

Transcript from episode

Catherine: Love is possible.

Catherine: We have something really sweet.

Lane: I have another friend in long-term recovery and she had a partner divorce and it’s thought never, it was never going to happen again. And then she met her partner and. It’s like magic. Isn’t that great? Yeah. I think that it’s like, so it’s, I love it. I love hearing that.

I love that we have all these lives.

Catherine: I know. We think that we know you have no idea.

Lane: We know shit. We don’t know

Catherine: you flash. Hi, I’m Katherine just, and you’re listening to the connected, calm life.

Lane: Welcome back. How are you, my friend? I hope you’re having a great moment. Welcome to the show. My name is Lane Kennedy and you’re listening to the connected, calm life with Catherine and me today. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Really glad that you’ve tuned in. I know you have lots of options. Right. There are so many podcasts out there. It’s like a billion podcasts, and we’re lucky enough to have you with us today. And Catherine is a new friend, and I’m super stoked to have her with me. And Catherine, you’re sober a long time as well. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Yes. How long are you sober? 1 billion years. What? See what I’m talking about 1 billion years.

Catherine: I got sober when I was 18 and I’m now 50. 34 years of continuous sobriety.

Lane: Right. I think that’s really epic and important to say. It’s important to say continuous, at least for me, it is because I have continuous recovery as well. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

And it’s also important to say that you got sober, like at 18, like you could be 18 and get some. And right when we’re living in a world of crisis today, and there are so many young people who are stuck trapped with addiction and you are walking like you’re walking miracle and model of recovery. I,

Catherine: I, I have goosebumps.

It just makes me emotional to think about that. I had no idea about the mirror. Circles. That would be my life now. Not that it’s all rosy, but just, I had no idea,

Lane: right? Yeah. I didn’t have a clue either. I always laugh about it, I don’t know why I laugh. It’s like just an uncomfortable moment of like, not knowing, because I was such a know it all.

When I was first in recovery.

Catherine: I know everything.

Lane: Where’d you get sober?

Catherine: I got sober. I grew up in San Diego and I told my parents I needed help and I checked myself into treatment and it happened to be at the top on the top floor of the hospital that my dad worked in. So he was really happy to have his drug-addict daughter upstairs.

Lane: my gosh. Oh yeah.

Catherine: But then I, you know, I went to the treatment. Then I went directly to a plane and flew to Minneapolis because of the counselors in treatment. That’s where they came from Minneapolis and there were 10,000 treatment centers there. And that I didn’t want to go home. I didn’t know anybody except people that I drank or used drugs with.

And I didn’t want, I didn’t like my

Lane: parents yet, so. Right. And that was like the eighties 80. Is that when you got sober in the eighties, right? Oh my God. That’s like the breakfast club.

I’m just thinking of like, I think in pictures and movies, And you know, sorry, that’s just who I am and culture. Yeah, that was a wild time for me. I’m just thinking about what I was doing at 18. And sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

where were you? I was at Chico. I was up in Chico going to university working at a place called Mexican dive bar, but it was epic. It was the best place ever, like pitchers of beer. Oh you know, like the little, the little tacos, like just guacamole, you know, at that age you can eat and drink whatever.

And I got a job there because that was the cool place to be. And I just stopped.

Catherine: Cool girl.

Lane: I, I was the party girl. That’s definitely, you know, I was a little sister at an S a fraternity, not a good idea. I didn’t want to be in a sorority. I was like, no, that’s not my style. So I got into that fraternity house situation, and that was definitely. That disaster, a slippery slope, was the most dangerous place for a young female.

That is where I was raped. That is where I fell off a building. That is where I was ridiculed and humiliated. Yeah. Holy crap. Yeah.

Catherine: Yeah. So when I got sober, they had me do an intake thing with a counselor and she said, so you have two choices. You can go to college because I’d already been accepted to Redlands University.

I was going to study business with a minor in art, but that was the smart way to go. The crystal meth took front and center. The lady said, so you have two choices. You can go to college and go to outpatient, or you can go to inpatient. And I looked at her like, you’re kidding me, that you’re giving an 18-year-old. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

That option really. Can I happen if I go to outpatient like I’m gonna walk over?

Lane: No, no. Lock me up. Yeah. So you went, you went to a treatment center. I did a facility. Did you do a sober living as well after? Yeah. So

Catherine: the treatment center was on the top floor of that hospital. Then I flew to a halfway house for eight months in Minneapolis where I learned to make my bed, run my dishes, and do my lunch.

In a room in a house full of people that were 13 to 18 years old men, boys, and girls. And I was the oldest. I was 19. I turned 19 and treatment.

Lane: So you’ve never had a legal drink. Nope. I think that’s really cool.

Catherine: I’ve never heard anyone in my life say that was cool. That’s really cool.

Lane: Wow. Yeah. But good old days you were in treatment, you were in that facility for eight months. I

Catherine: was in that halfway house for eight months. Yeah. And then I, I worked for a minute at a department store and I thought, this is not why I got sober.

I was so depressed selling fake handbags, like pleather and yeah, big jewelry. And I thought, no. And my mom actually said, you need to, you need to try to

Lane: get into. Oh, good. And so that kind of kicked you off then?

Catherine: Yeah. Then I applied and got in and that changed

Lane: my life. Getting into art school. Yeah.

Catherine: Yeah. It makes me want to cry.

Should we just cry? You can cry.

Lane: You can cry. I love that. It was, it seems so easy for you. What seemed easy? Like just to make that decision to go to art school.

Catherine: Well, okay. The options were nothing else. Like I had no other thing that I like to do. And, and high school, I got kicked out of high school for forging notes.

I got away with it for a while, but then it stacked up and they’re like, you need to come to the office please. And so I got whisked off to another school I had to start over. So it took me five years to graduate high school. I started doing more meth, started figuring out how to, you know, manipulate even more.

And my, there was one art class, one that we needed to take. I took it for four years because this woman looked me in the eyes and cared about me because the only thing is the only experience I had that I remember somebody being nurturing, asking how I was doing, telling me I was good at something, making me sit down and start and finish.

Things. So, and she knew that I was on mass. You didn’t tell anybody. Thank you very much. So she really did save my life because I wouldn’t have known what to do with myself. I mean, I went to art school cause I didn’t know what else to do.

Lane: Have you talked to her since then?

Catherine: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It took her years to accept that as she would hear it and she’d be like, oh no, no. And I’m like, no, actually you saved my life, saved my life.

Lane: That’s really cool.

Catherine: And now I feel like the rest of my life has been to pay it forward, to teach people that they could use art as a way to process all the shit underneath the surface, you know?

Lane: And the early days of your recovery did you have resistance to doing what you were told?

Catherine: Are you kidding me? I was off. Gosh, I’m all black, black clothes, black hair, black eyeliner smoking. Two packs of cigarettes a day. Get the fuck out of my way. Don’t tell me what to do. Okay.

Lane: The cigarette situation. Do you smoke still?

Catherine: Yeah.

Lane: Okay. Yeah. So cigarettes were like hand like you couldn’t have one without the other, right? It’s a cigarette and a drink. And now I can’t imagine my life with a cigarette. When did you quit? I quit when I was when I broke up, when I had a major breakup and I think I was three or four years sober.

I can’t, honestly, I can’t remember. And I was devastated and I was smoking two packs of chemistry. Loved them. And that was when the American spirits came out as well. And I was like, oh, these are God. They’re perfect. Right? Like there’s organic. Like even before organic was a cool thing, it was like real tobacco. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Right. You could really tell, like I would get like high off of that. And I went. Here we go. So my girlfriend and I were on the road, she’s a musician and we were breaking up on the road. It was kind of crazy. And I remember sitting in the stairwell of a hotel, like, and we didn’t stay it. Wasn’t like a nice hotel.

It was just a hotel. And I’m out there like smoking, like chain smoking. Right. And I’m on the phone with my My S my elder and she says, you can either smoke or drink or eat chocolate cake. You can’t do all three. And you’ve already given up. You’ve already given up alcohol now, do you want to continue smoking?

And do you want to continue eating chocolate cake? And I felt really bad. Like I was, I felt like I was dying. And I took one more drag and I was like, I’m going to get chocolate cake. And that, that was like my last cigarette. And I didn’t, I didn’t know that that was going to be my last cigarette and. You know, I still had to travel with her.

Oh my God. And she smoked like a chain. Like she was like, right. It was just, it was, but I had like, no desire after that moment.

Catherine: What do you think happened? What do you think?

Lane: I mean, it was one of those divine moments. It’s just like, when I stopped drinking, I was just like a half a glass of white wine.

Like here’s a sip. And I was like, Done what? I still eat chocolate cake, but I don’t have to, like, I used to you know, it’s still in the mix sometimes. But people know that I can’t like it if I’m bingeing chocolate cake, there’s a big problem in my mind.

Catherine: We’re so alike because I was just talking last night about cookies because right now I’m doing a cleanse.

I’m doing shakes and you know, green juice. And we went over to my boyfriend’s family’s and there were cookies and things. And I admitted that you know, I can’t have one cookie in that. It’s like baggage. Like I know I’m an addict because if you give me a bag of chips, I mean, just it’s so obvious to me.

I don’t, it’s ridiculous. But those cookies…

Lane: Go ahead. No, I was just thinking about how we know that. Right. We know that it’s a problem. Yeah. We know now because. Years into this lifestyle, but somebody who’s three years, four years, five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20. They’re still in it sometimes. Right? Like I complain a lot about my decaf obsession.

Like I’ve had to like draw the line at fricking decaf coffee and people like, but they’re like, you’re crazy for this. This is no big deal. But my, obsession with it is the problem. Yes. So what is your latest iteration of obsession? sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Catherine: Where do we start? Well, I actually have to say, I get obsessed with my work and I can’t stop. Like I can’t, I don’t want to.

Lane: Okay. Let’s talk about that. What does that look like?

Catherine: I just purchased some materials before this call so that I can get in the dark room. Cause it’s raining today. I’m like, I want to make art and nothing will stop me.

So I’ve heard there are some things so that I can, and it had been on my mind for a long time to get in the dark room again, and I want to make photograms, so I don’t need the, all the things, I just need some of the things. And so I just did the thing where you hit yes. And bought the stuff. So I, I’m thinking a lot about.

My business, what’s next to my business. What am I going to teach ness? What, what is my art? What’s happening with my artwork? What retreats do I want to have? Where am I going? What, and I love it. I love,

Lane: I love it. Do you think that you obsess about it because it’s so serviced?

Catherine: I do say to myself, you know, I wish I could just make art, make a living doing that.

And then I keep on teaching. Like I can’t teach,

Lane: so let’s get into, what exactly are you teaching? Like what does that look like? Because I know what I teach. So let’s hear what you teach. Everybody teaches differently. Right? So let’s kind of go through a little later. All right, I want to hear yours then too.

Catherine: With the online classes, there’s a variety of things, but because I worked with Miguel Ruiz, everything is in a queue that it isn’t used in every single thing I teach. I want to offer opportunity for people to wake up to the fact that 98% of the reason why we are suffering is because of what we’re thinking.

Lane: What we believe we’re still in alignment. It’s crazy. It’s crazy. What that I could have said that same statement and for anybody who’s listening and who is not familiar with Miguel Ruiz.

Catherine: Yeah. He wrote the book, the Four Agreements, and The Granddaddy. And basically, the short version is at 10 years of recovery.

Was that another emotional bottom? I didn’t want to drink. I didn’t want to be here. I had already done the drinking. I already know what that does. I wasn’t having urges to drink. I was having, I was, so I felt so isolated. And I was going through a breakup. You quit smoking and I’m like, I’m out. You know, like, I don’t know if I can do this anymore.

Cause the people that were drinking, I didn’t want to hang out with the people that were going to AA. I was kind of over it. And there I was in this limbo place breakup happening. And then a friend of mine said Miguel’s apprentices are in town. I was in Portland and you should come. And I thought, don’t tell me what to do.

For the 10th time, you know, and, and she said, well, I know you’re not busy because he just broke up with you. So I was like, fine,

Lane: I’ll go middle finger, middle finger,

Catherine: two of them. But I went and sat down and heard these people speaking. I didn’t know what they were saying necessarily, but I felt that I was home and I never, I just, so anyway, it started.

My apprenticeship with them led to an apprenticeship with Miguel Ruiz that led to working in his office. It led to helping him run his well, just, I mean, it led to. It’s still the thing that helps me wake up to the fact that I’m choosing, I have it here a type of addiction to a story that’s leading me to suffer.

And I am willing to take responsibility for that now and change the channel or not. I don’t have to, I can hang out in hell if I want. It tastes kind of good sometimes over. I know it really well and it wastes a lot of time and I’m too afraid of expansion. So I’m just going to hang out over here for a while until I’m done with this.

And then I’m going to go back over there and wake up again. So like every, it changed my life and continues to, I’m not necessarily apprenticing with him at this moment, but he’s still very actively, you know, he’s in, I’m always looking at my thoughts. Considering what’s

Lane: going on. Well, it’s, it’s very similar to when we find teachings, right?

It’s teaching. His message is his words. So if we look at the 12 steps, right? The foundations of the 12 steps there are principles that that program is based on. And then you kind of just transfer that into Miguel’s work, right? There are principles, the foundation of his teachings, and they’re, let’s face it. I mean, there’s nothing new here.

It’s just the way that somebody passes that message on right. I love that you talked about 10 years of recovery, you had that like I’m out, I’m out. And I think that’s something that happens and nobody talks about it and people drank again and then they don’t come back. They don’t come back. They don’t come back or they get really miserable.

And then they have these awakenings. Yeah. And then they don’t even talk about that, which irks that out of me, because that is real life. I mean, this is what we need to be talking about. These spiritual, bottoms occur as a result of walking the path a day at a time for the long haul. Right. Like I know for me, it’s not an option to like pick up again.

Right. Yeah, but it’s an option for me to drink decaf coffee. It’s right. Like it’s still putting damage in my life. It still affects the way that I see the world until I reach another person that has a message that’s going to make me change the way that I see. Yes, but I have to do, like, I have to take the steps to get there. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Like nobody just handled. I feel like

Catherine: I have to be in pain. I mean, I have to be in pain, even if it’s just a cookie. I mean, it’s sugar. It’s leading me on a path to destruction. Anyway, I’m obsessed with sugar. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate I can’t, I’m not getting nutrients mean. And I was diagnosed with lupus later on in my life.

And so wheat, dairy, and sugar shouldn’t be on the table anyway. So it’ll be fine. And I sound like an alcoholic. It’ll be fine. Like I have evidence that it won’t be fine. Who are you? How has that fine? sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Lane: Fine. You don’t have fine. It’s not fine. I, so, no, it’s not fine.

Catherine: I have to say I do. I struggle with the espresso thing too. I get like,

Lane: Way out of whack. What, it’s our sensitivity. Like? I think people in recovery are little being our body, the humanness of us really we’re so sensitive. I think so too. And we don’t want to be like, we’re like, so

Catherine: I think that’s why I was going back to what you were talking about before.

Like the things that then occur. We put the drink down than what it appears and what I see in new recovery. Now that I’m hanging out with a lot of people that are newly sober is the joke that’s happening around compulsive spending or the joke about the cake or the joke about the I’m like, okay, let’s discuss.

I mean, yeah, we’re laughing about it here. There’s underneath the surface of that is something there’s still discontent. And I, and I don’t know how long it takes. I mean, we’re all individuals, so we all have a different experiences of that, but, but I noticed I didn’t smoke. I didn’t drink coffee until I was in treatment.

It was a cliche. Give me the cigarette and the coffee.

Man not knowing or whole is, it is a thing.

Lane: It’s a thing. And this is the thing, the spiritual bottoms are a thing.

Catherine: Yeah. I mean, would you quit? You were talking about the coffee and the cookie and the, I mean, not the cookie, the cake, but why would you stop?

Lane: Because it disrupts. It really, for me at this point, it does, it disrupts my relations with my family.

It disrupts my emotional wellness. It disrupts the way that I look at myself in the mirror. It affects the way that I’m able to serve. It’s horrible. I have a question about

Catherine: that though. Well, how do you, what do you do? Cause you’re still okay. Let’s say you remove the thing. There’s an empty space there.

What do you do? sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

Lane: I feel it was something else and type typically for me, what I feel it with is the God I just call it the God of a divine purpose. That’s what I fill it with. And when I’m there in that ocean of yumminess, I can be there forever, but like a little addict, narcissist ego brain. Wants, it’s like a rat.

It’s like swimming in that w w like the body of yumminess like I can’t take, and it’s like a struggle. So that is why my practice is so important to me. It’s like, it’s, it goes before anything else in my life. Kid husband. And like, it’s like, that’s how I have to start. If I can’t start there. Or if I don’t start there the day, it’s probably going to go sideways.

Or you tell me more about your practice when you just say that it’s, it’s really simple. I mean, I literally, get up at like five or six o’clock in the morning, every day, no matter what, no matter what. And I go downstairs, I snuggle with my dog and I meditate. I go into practice. And I’m practicing. It could be an hour. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

It could be an hour and a half, but I know that that meditation is mine where I am in that ocean of yumminess.

Catherine: I love that you say it, the ocean of yum.

Lane: Oh, there’s nothing better. Like, and it’s that time when I am listening for guidance. It’s that time when I drop into a different, different brainwave.

I’m like I am in the pocket. With the God. I love that so much. Yeah. What’s your practice look like? It

Catherine: looks like getting up at five because I just do, I don’t want to have an environment, right?

Lane: You just do.

Catherine: Yeah. And sometimes I lay there for an hour looking at my Instagram feed.

Lane: You don’t beat yourself up about it. You’re just in it.

Catherine: No, I’m just being myself. I mean, I’m learning how to love myself, no matter fucking what? That’s my goal in life. Nope. Who cares? Make a ton of art or not? Who cares? Yeah. Whatever, all the things fill in the blank. But no, I actually started Monday the activation practice so that people could meet me on zoom so that we could do it together.

Cause I kept saying, sober Artist and Recovery Advocate I want a morning practice and then I wouldn’t do it. So I thought, well, if I’m accountable to other people, so now people join me on this. At seven in the morning and we do my practice, which is first I get a download and I just share, like, I’m responding to what people are talking about is going on for them.

And I respond to that with, I would call it Toltec wisdom or the, of all as we talked about. And what I can explain is just what you just said. It’s the ocean of yummy. It’s just knowing without needing to be. And I love that it is like, that’s where I want to hang out all the time.

Lane: How can we get others to hang out there all the time with us?

Like, whoa, you know, I am constantly talking about mindful living. Cause I think that’s a gateway and it’s really easy. Right. So how, how do we get more people into the ocean of…

Catherine: Well, you know, when people walk into the room and you can feel that they’ve done a lot of work on themselves, I feel like it starts with us.

And then it’s just a ripple effect. Yeah. Even if they never did it, I feel even if they never, I feel like you’re making a change anyway. Even, even if there’s no acknowledgment of that. Is happening, on their end. It’s not even up to us. It’s like, not even, it’s not my job. It’s not my business necessarily. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

I wouldn’t prefer to hang out with a bunch of people that are all on the same, like turned on by the idea and doing the work to forget the story and get into the truth of who we are. That sounds really good. Somebody said the other day though, that maybe the people that are not interested have already gotten enlightened in another life.

So they’re just here, you know, just doing

Lane: whatever. Okay, sober Artist and Recovery Advocate That idea is fascinating to me because my husband is one of those people and I’m always like, how did I end up, like, how is this happening? But he is so enlightened in other ways, like Jetta.

And he’s just not, excuses me, not interested in any spiritual dominion here and this, this passing, but the way he sees the world, the way he operates is so spiritual in other ways.

Catherine: I’m always like he does bring you to another level of it, of enlightenment.

Lane: So to speak or Yemen. Yes. But, so, but he was probably in another life.

Yeah. Yeah.

Catherine: I mean, who, who are we to everybody here is you know, of the same place and thing, energetically, we’re all the same. Are we to decide what anybody else needs to do?

Lane: Or like in the way, like, my ego thinks that you need to be more like me.

Catherine: I know, I maybe not, I don’t know why you’re that way.

And I, my preference is to not have lunch with you, but I love you so much, you know,

Lane: I know it’s so hard when you’re in conflict with somebody, right? Or at least I’m going to say it’s hard for me. Yeah. I had something recently happen and my ego took off and had such great opinions about it. This person and these people, and they’ve literally had to just, sober Artist and Recovery Advocate I had to go to bed.

I had to put myself to bed and turn it off. And it’s fascinating how far the egoic mind will take it and run. Oh yeah. And if I’m not disciplined enough to just turn it off, it’ll ruin a relationship like, and again, I know that now after. This much time. No kidding.

Catherine: I mean, it’s taken me a long let’s. I mean, I teach a class called let’s turn triggers into treasures, and everybody looks at me like fucking talking about it.

I’m like, well, when you’re triggered, like the person that you got in a fight with, that’s actually a clue that there’s some wound that hasn’t been healed yet. It’s reminding you of something because the person’s not doing anything to.

Lane: Right. So what does that mean? So give me an example. Let’s take an example so we can help our listeners understand that.

Catherine: Okay. So people piss us off all the time, but you know, like an easy, easy one would be saying, give

Lane: us one gift. Give me one of yours. When

Catherine: people have pissed me off. Like how though let’s see.

Lane: Let me count the ways

Catherine: I just thinking about, you know, in a relationship that’s like where the yummiest triggers happen.

Right. And why can’t I think of anything right now? Of course, I’m on the spot, but.

He bug, you know, he bugs me a lot. Like, I’ll be like, he’s just being himself, but I’m triggered by him. Not let’s just use an easy one. Like he’s staying at my house and he cleans up after himself. Why isn’t he helping like me? Why isn’t he helping me make my life easier? Yeah. Staying here. So here is my expectation, there’s my expectation that I never told. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

He should know, that’s my clue right there. You should know. And I’m going to punish him by thinking things in my head for a long time today and not telling him, and then treat them kind of cold and maybe not say it for a while and then blow up in his face because I didn’t really know the words. I didn’t want to get vulnerable.

I didn’t want to say the thing. I think he should have known how dare he’s using me. Like I just start making up stories about it and then. Stop and notice that that’s happening. I can sit down with him and say, I noticed that I’m triggered because of this. And I never even told you what my expectation was.

And I don’t think I even knew what it was until I had noticed I was triggered. And what’s great is that he will sit with me and we can talk through the whole thing of like, what does it remind me of what. Where does it come from? And then he learns about me. I forgive myself for being an asshole. And I also forgive him for being himself.

I can have a preference if he keeps, like, if I say I’d really prefer it, if you would clean the toilet every week and then he didn’t, then we can have another talk.

Lane: I like that. You just said you could forgive yourself for being an asshole. And I think that. Such a profound statement. I didn’t find forgiveness until I was many years into recovery and it has been one of the most transformational tools and in my recovery to date.

Wow. I think people don’t look, what I have found is that people tend to just sweep over forgiveness. Yeah, and forgiveness is such a deep, deep action. I think it’s an action to undergo undertake. And so when we forgive, we become open and more loving. Like we come back to that source. Right. We, we kind of like plugged back in, we’re tuned in to that ocean of yummy.

And in that really, when you were talking about you and your partner, right? sober Artist and Recovery Advocate That’s what I was, I was just thinking about how you also said, I forgive him for being himself, for being himself, right? For just being himself. And that’s another. Wow. That’s a really profound thought.


Catherine: not doing anything to me.


Lane: Right. Ever. That’s just like,

Catherine: I know it makes my head explode too. It gets really, really true that everybody’s just being themselves with their process trauma. We don’t know the story that they’re bringing to the table. We think we see them, but we don’t know through our own lens. We, we can’t possibly know what’s going on in their head unless they actually.

Right. And even then they might not have that much awareness about why they do what they do either. So I find it really interesting just to watch people be who they are. And then I get to choose who I want to spend time with, but not make people wrong for being themselves. Yeah. And you said something really interesting about the forgiveness piece being an action and I, and I stopped in my tracks since that.

What does that mean for you? What is the activity of forgiveness?

Lane: I behave differently. How though? For, okay. So like for my son, I don’t ask them for things or I will make, I will do the laundry. Right. Because typically I would like to berate him. I’d be like, get the clothes down. Let’s go. Let’s go. When in reality.

You know what? He’s fricking 11 years old, 12 years old, and he’s just not capable. So I have to forgive myself, like my obsessive control. My action and forgiveness are just doing the laundry. It’s just taking the action. It’s stepping into an acceptance point as well. Like I collect data, a lot of it. Which side are you on?

And so all I have, I collect all these data points and so that forgiveness is just do the laundry, just, you know, snuggle up with him, like, you know, so now I’ll just kind of grab him and. Right. He’s at that age where he’s kind of awkward and like, Nah, I don’t know, mom. And I’ll just like, come here your mind, give me a hug.

Forget about the laundry. That for me is an act of forgiveness for him mouthing off for him being, you know like now he’s really mouthing off. So it’s just made my life easier. And there’s more love infused in our activities or our day-to-day life.

Catherine: Okay. But I have another question then. Yeah, because that is an outward act of forgiveness.

And I’m wondering if that’s what you do is you made this motion of hugging him. And I was thinking, is that how you forgive yourself? Is it like, is there an activity that you do when you’ve done something that you would normally judge and feel shame around? How do you, how do you activate that part of yourself that can forgive?

And do that towards yourself.

Lane: I think that comes in my prayer and my meditation. That’s the only way that it comes. Like I take it to the yummy and say help me. Yeah. And then my heart opens. And when I have that expansion, nothing matters.

Catherine: No it doesn’t. I love that place. I love that, you know, the place and, you know, the place.

And you said something else when you were talking about forgiveness? I was and how hard it is for us, myself included to just give ourselves a break. I was thinking about how self-centered and self-absorbed it is of me to think that just to have these conversations with myself, about how bad I am, like just that.

Really, I want to waste my life, talking to myself about how bad I am all the time. Why, how about I just drop the rock? I think there’s a book called drop.

Lane: Yeah. It’s such a way. It’s a waste of energy. It really is. It’s a waste.

Catherine: But what is behind that though? I feel like there’s a reason we’re getting something out of it.

Lane: For me, that reason is an invitation to change.

Catherine: you’re, if you’re done feeling,

Lane: yes, it’s one step closer to activating my change, my transformation, my personal evolution, because I believe that w you know, this whole, my whole recovery is about a personal evolution to get me closer to that really divine spirit. sober Artist and Recovery Advocate

And so every time I step into that, I’m closer. Yeah, not

Catherine: easy. No, but it could be easy. What if we just decided it was easy?

Lane: That’s it? We can just decide. I was just talking to somebody that day about this. I love it. You just said that, but we talked about the same. It can be that

Catherine: easy. It can be that easy if we just make a decision that it’s easy.

I think, you know, I bump up against that in my business too. I don’t know where those people are that would align with the thing I’m teaching. Okay. Then they’re not there not

Lane: there, but if it’s, I, I can’t even believe you’re saying this. I just literally had that. So it’s, it’s making that decision, right.

It’s it’s going to be easy. I’m going to own my forgiveness. I’m going to own that connection. I’m going to like this is it. Okay. But you

Catherine: know, the moment when Neo decides that he’s

Lane: taken number one right there with you

Catherine: when he decides it’s a full, it’s not like he decided it’s like a thing happened and it’s everything.

It’s like emotional intelligence physical, and it’s not just him. I felt like. You know, when he walks down a hallway and you can see the energy, we feel that we feel the energy. I feel like when everything clicks in and we know without knowing it’s just, so it’s not just us in the room. When we get to that yummy place, it’s like a

Lane: week it’s 100% in the pandemic.

I got disconnected from that. The wi and I met with my teacher a couple of maybe a month ago. I was like, I need you now all hands on deck. And we had this session and she literally scraped the delusion that I had put back on me of not being connected. Right. The people, the ego, like the pandemic.

Oh, my life is over this place. Like, you know, all the stuff that we just pile on or like the I pile on. Yeah. And I did a session with her and literally, the next day plugged back in, it was so good. We need those people. We do. We forget.

Catherine: I like to say loneliness. And that that loneliness is the thing that usually takes me down first, the hardest it’s like hanging out on my shoulder, like, you know, you don’t have any friends.


But yeah, I like that. You said that whole piece of like that you scraped it. I can see the disillusion of the separateness. This is happening to me and I’m alone in this and it’s awful. Like actually there’s more happening that we can’t even see. I CA I love that the spec, I just was told again, like the spectrum of light is much more than what we see, what we perceive and that, you know, it’s the size of a toothpick compared to like a great highway.

And that’s all we see is the toothpick little sliver of what’s happening in the world. And we think that this is real.

Lane: Yeah, this is not it. This is not it. Okay. I could go on forever. But we’re at our like time. No, I know. No, we can’t. Will you come back again? I’d like to, yeah. Okay, good. So we’re going to have another conversation.

I’m really excited about it. I don’t know when that’ll be, but you’ll come back again. People can connect with you now. You’re out there in the world. Thank you so much for being on the show with me and sharing your wisdom right there. There’s so much wisdom in long-term recovery and there’s truth here.

Catherine: Yeah. And it sneaks up on you. You don’t really realize no. You know, in the world, dealing with things differently and somebody points it out to you. We can’t see ourselves really

Lane: it’s I think it’s called embodying.

It’s a thing. Yeah. Embodiment, embodiment, Catherine. Thanks so much for being with us today.

Catherine: Thanks so much for inviting me. I love this. I love the conversation. I’m so glad.

episode 58: Long term recovery and sober artist Catherine Just