Building Sober Friendships

Tamar Medford is our co-host in this episode and I fricking know you are going to love her just as much as I do!

You can find out about her over at The Road Forward!

Listen in to Tamar’s Episode

Building Sober Friendships


Tamar: So weird, like it just keeps evolving. It’s magical. It is. Hey everyone. My name’s Tamara Medford, and you’re listening to the connected, calm life podcast. And I’m excited to be here today Building Sober Friendships

Lane: Oh, so good to have you on the show. I want to do that. Do you guys were watching, I’d be dancing. Welcome to the show.

Everyone. Thank you for tuning in my name is Lynn Kennedy and this is the connected calm life it is going to be. This is going to be another good show. I mean, every show is really good. I’m really liking how the Fridays are turning out. And every week tomorrow I get to speak with a new co-host and it’s just changed.

I think it’s changed my desire to show up. It’s changed the rhythm of the show. It’s changed you know, the people who listen, it’s been really cool. So thank you for co-hosting today. How long have you been sober?

Tamar: Nine and a half amazing years. I like the half because every day is a miracle, right?

Lane: It is. Yeah.

How long have you had your podcast?

Tamar: I have had my podcast since the end of 2019, so I still feel new. But it’s evolved so much just like my sobriety actually. Yeah.

Lane: What made you get into having a podcast?

Tamar: You know, it’s funny because our mutual friend, Mr., I actually. You know, I needed some motivation at the beginning of 2019, because I had started gaining weight again Building Sober Friendships

I was getting unmotivated. I was complacent in my recovery. And so one of my friends had said tomorrow, have you ever listened to podcasts? You really should listen to these. And I’m like, what’s a podcast? So like, I’m thinking, you know, The person radio. And I was like, no, I’m not, I’m not listening to a podcast, but she’s like, give it a try, recommended some.

And I thought, Hey, these are pretty cool. And so, because I was into health and fitness, I actually started looking into some health and fitness casts and I found our friend and. I really loved how he connected with his guests because just like in recovery, I could relate. It was easier for me to understand.

Building Sober Friendships

Okay. I like what this guy does. I felt like he knows the language. Been through it himself. So I ended up going to one of his events. And at that event, she had a number of podcasters there. He so kindly, because he knew I was coming down from Canada, invited my friend and me out for dinner after, and you know, one of the other podcasts and there’s like, tomorrow, what’s your story?

You know, you’re not drinking clearly. And so I shared a bit of it. Right. And I just, I always say I’m a retired professional for people who don’t know. And she’s like, okay, God, it, it always has a little bit of a laugh and they always let it go. But she said, you know, have you ever thought about starting a podcast and sharing your story Building Sober Friendships

I’m like, no, you know, who’s going to listen to me? And she said you know what if you can impact even a handful of lives by sharing your story. Well, why not go for it? And so, you know, being an all-in kind of person, I thought I’m going to start my podcast. And I started as soon as I got. It’s so funny.

Lane: That’s so typical, right? All in let’s jump into the deep end of the pool. That’s one thing. That’s a character trait that I love about people in recovery. And before that, we’re going to back up the bus for a minute, because I like, I know you from this point on, but I don’t know any of your backstory and Adam, our mutual friend.

He’s always just been like, you have to know. She has a God. And so I want you just to unpack I know a little bit from reading your bio, but we’ve hung out and we’ve gotten to know each other, but I don’t really know, you know, the backstory. So how did you land in, like, how did you land in sobriety? Building Sober Friendships I want a little tiny, just a little snippet.

Tamar: A little snippet. Well, you know, I started drinking because of my inability to handle my emotions. And for me, I started with alcohol, turned to harder drugs, and turned to relationships like I was always seeking. Outside external sources for love, right. And that just somebody to tell me it’s going to be okay.

And alcohol and drugs made me feel that way. And then I decided, well, let’s shift it a little bit. You know, my life becomes a little bit terrible now. And I got married because I thought, Hey, if I get married, everything’s going to be better. I’m married an alcoholic. Of course. And we were married for six years together for nine.

But at the end of that, nothing changed, right? Because I was still. Looking for that outside love and validation. And I got really depressed. I was medicated. I had turned I was off harder drugs for about nine years in my, in my story. You know, I got off them and kind of in my late twenties, cause my drugs cocaine.


Yeah. I was like, oh my God, there’s something out there. That’s not gonna, that’s going to allow me not to black out and I can drink more. I’m all on. Like I smoked crack the first time I tried cocaine, I just go all in. I love it. I

Lane: would have hung out with you.

Tamar: I was like, this is awesome. And you know, but then it led to prescription painkillers because I oh yeah.

Okay. Percocet. Oh yeah. T3 is like anything that anybody gave me. I was like scuttled.

Lane: Yes. Okay. You truly. Down and dirty. I feel like there’s a progression that happens. You know, when you bounce it, like start bouncing around. At least that’s my experience is that, you know, it was drinking and then I, you know, went into the white powder land and that white powder land wasn’t enough.

So then it was like, you know, fumbled with some pills and then I had surgery and then I started going down that prescription and boom, then I got sober. Thank God, because that’s when the Oxy world opened up. And I remember a friend. Going on it. And, and for some reason I was like, you know, that just doesn’t I know I’m not going to take that because I literally saw her, like, we would wake up in the morning and she would be out of it.

And she was just taking it because she was taking it. I was like, okay. I can’t like, there was a, there was like this invisible line that I knew that I couldn’t. For that one specific. Did you D did you do Oxy?

Tamar: No I had not. Percocet was the worst it got, but the interesting part is my, the reason I got addicted to painkillers was I had a seven day bender where every day called in sick for work.

I, you know just terrible. And then ironically enough, I went back. I was an order picker and I was lifting five kegs of beer. Onto a pallet now as an alcoholic, I thought, ha that’s pretty funny. I slipped a disc in my back and I was off work for three months. So I was getting paid by the government to take pain killers.

And so, you know, mix the alcohol, the cocaine and the painkillers now. And I had a really good time those three months, but it was also probably I’d say the darkest time in my addiction suicide. For sure. Yep. If that was today, I wouldn’t be alive.

Lane: I, yeah, I can relate to that. Wow. Okay. And you had a moment of clarity.

Tamar: I did have a moment of clarity. I sat on the floor with a bottle of painkillers, right? Because I’d had my gallbladder removed and a morphine that was a trip, a good thing. They didn’t give that out for free. And I had nobody that could get it for me, but I had turned, you know, I had, I got an off the cocaine for nine years, started dabbling in it.

Again, knew I had to change. Right. 215 pounds financially bankrupt, unhealthy unhealthily married. Is that a word? Unhealthily, unhealthy, married,

and severely depressed. And I sat on the floor with this bottle of pills and I just, I remember sobbing. I was sitting with my dog. I had a little pug at the time. His name was Rudy and they give you that leg a little head tilt. Right? And apparently gods are dogs spelled backward. It is God. Just something in me.

I just said a little prayer. Like God helped me because I was tired of hurting the people that I loved. And I just had this like divine intervention, I call it, but something in me, just all of a sudden have the desire to 11. It’s like, listen, you didn’t go through this 22 years of hell. Right. To do nothing with it.

And I just have the desire to change my life. And the funny thing is that it wasn’t the desire to get sober right away, because that took another six months, but I knew something had to shift.

Lane: So you stopped taking the pills and I’m just, I’m thinking 250 in pounds. That’s you were like three.

Tamar: Oh, I’m, I’m getting up there again later.

Cause I love food. So I’m working on that again.

Lane: I’m just like, you’re not very big.

Tamar: No, I hide it.

Lane: Well, I like that is that is a spiritual awakening moment, right? That is thank you for sharing that. It really, we have these moments in our life where it’s like do or die. Have you had a lot of these or is that one?

I mean, I know that I’ve had a lot, so.

Tamar: I had a lot of physical bottoms, you know, I was talking to somebody else the other day about that is that, you know, in my worst of my addiction, I had a lot of physical bottoms where I just thought, like I was thin. I just, right. I was in places like I was in crack houses, sitting around with a bunch of people Building Sober Friendships

I didn’t know. And I’m like, how did someone like me get to a place like this? Right. But my, my last bottom, when I started digging, that was to real spiritual bottom. Right. That was like, I had, I was spiritually bankrupt. I had nothing else to give her. So I thought I had nothing to give broken, broken. Yeah.

Lane: It makes it really challenging to live

Tamar: at that place. Yeah. But I didn’t want to, I didn’t want to hurt anybody anymore.

Lane: Thank you for sharing that. And I’m sure that our listeners can. Relate to just a little piece of that somewhere. I know, I sure can. So let’s fast forward now to life today because life today is so fun and you’re approaching that longterm recovery like that 10 year mark, where I, you know, I feel like that’s when the lights went on for me.

My life evolved. It they’d like went warp speed. Are you feeling any of

Tamar: that right now? Oh yeah. I feel like I’m so far out of my comfort zone that I’m riding this continuous wave of discomfort. But to me now that’s become almost a new addiction. Cause I’m like, oh, I just want to like, hold onto that feeling of what’s going to happen today.

Oh, I’m so scared, but I’m so excited.

Lane: Yes. So that’s exactly what it is. Like there, there is like, okay, I’m just jumping into the dirty lake. Like the murky lakes. Like I don’t like lakes. I can go into the ocean, but for some reason, lakes freak me out because I can’t see the bottom. I don’t know. But that’s what this, like 10 is like dumping into that lake.

Tamar: Yeah. Fall on,

Lane: on when you were. Let’s say two years ago, I’m just going back to when you started your podcast and you had that conversation, what else was happening in your life?

Tamar: Oh, what wasn’t happening in my life. I just, I take on everything. I’m like I said, I’m not all in.

Lane: Yeah, actually you’re kind of a little bit of a codependent.

Oh yeah.

Tamar: Not kinda.

Lane: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I like, it’s hard for me because I’m not a codependent at all. And a lot of my clients will talk to me about that. And I’m like, no, you say no. I’m like, but how, like you just say no. So let’s get into the little bit of the codependency stuff, because now is the time of the year when there’s a lot of giving, let’s just call it what it is.

Tamar: Yep.

Lane: How do you kind of navigate? Your relationships and life in recovery now around this particular area?

Tamar: Well, it’s interesting because I never looked at myself as a codependent. Right. I was fairly independent, which has codependent issues there. And I feel like my recovery, you know, as you do the work, your onion gets smaller, right?

You start to peel away these layers. And all of a sudden my onion just became like the full size sweet. I’m going to call it a sweet onion. Cause it’s, it’s a good onion and there’s all these new layers. And so. What I came to realize was that when I started to look at my emotions, my beliefs and my behaviors, right, because in the past I was so used to looking at resentments and my part, and I’m good at looking at my part now, but it’s like, I would try to control and sometimes not even realize.

Right. Like somebody talking to you and you saying, oh, you should do this well, okay. You’re trying to control their outcome. Right. Instead of talking about something between them, my partner, same thing, you know, if he does something I don’t like, and I try to manipulate it to a way that would suit my needs Building Sober Friendships.

Also the biggest thing was I have no control over the behaviors of others and because I’m an, a. I’m very, you know, I have some very good, solid friendships. I’ve had friendships where people who have followed me into addiction through addiction, abusive behavior or relationships into recovery, and always just loved me.

Right. Because they know the person that I really am. And then in recovery, I’ve met people. You do one thing wrong and then it’s like walking on eggshells. And so you start to people please, and you want to fix it. And I love to fix things. I love to deal with things, but I don’t like confrontation. And so I start doing avoidance behaviors.

I start to overeat. And for me, that is something that I’m very mindful of now is that I can’t control how you feel. I can just control how I respond to it. It’s so hard. It’s hard. It’s difficult.

Lane: Yeah, the confrontation piece, I think many women, in particular, to stay away from that. Yeah. Like that’s a big, huge challenge. And as you’re talking about this, I’m thinking about different people I’ve coached and different people. I know how, you know, hiding out and behavior and then perpetuate. That co-dependent relationship and all of a sudden, you’re just in a snowball of Pooh and it’s like, well, how do we get through that?

Right. And I like this idea of like, understanding that you have no control. It just, it breaks down to. Jumping back into the moment. And then this is what I talk about. Getting back into the moment and being very present with yourself. And that’s, I mean, it sounds so selfish, but like if I’m taking care of myself, then you’re going to be taken care of and, and we forget.

And just like, we forget that taking care of our needs is priority one and it’s not selfish. Like, oh, I’m not going to take care of you too. But if my needs are emotionally met by, I call it the ocean of yum or this power greater than me. Then we’re going to be so good and there’s not going to be any friction between us.

Yeah. What do you think about that?

Tamar: Am I on the wrong page? No, you’re totally. You’re in the same book here. You know, it’s interesting because my spouse and I right now are going through a big transition where, you know, we live separately because of what he does for a career. He’s taken on another client who he cares for.

And so his time is being spent. Basically adjusting to home life. Right. And it’s great. I love what he does. I admire it. And but of course we’ve been working so hard at being present with each other and prioritizing our relationship. Right. Because we actually broke up a few months and then got engaged.

So how about that for working on your codependency and. But for me, if you know, he’s like, Hey, Hey, I’m sorry, we’re running late. Or I won’t be able to come over to later. You know, the first thing inside me is like, oh, I just want him to come over. It’s not fair. And I start to get resentful towards that client and I just have to stop for a minute and go, okay, listen to me.

Your need, that’s not being met as you want to spend time with him. That’s not a bad thing. So just acknowledging the fact that, Hey, it’s, it’s cool to want to spend time with them, but guess what? I’m in recovery to do you know how many people I can call to catch up on? If I’m feeling lonely, I pick up the phone.

I said, Hey, I’ve been thinking about you. I had some free time, which I normally, as you know, we don’t have a lot of, I just wanted to give you a call. How are you doing? It’s that simple. It’s such a gift.

Lane: It’s such a gift. And this, this thing that you just said about time, I don’t okay. Being in the pandemic pre pandemic, post dynamic, wherever the heck we are on this pandemic life time.

I’m noodling over it because it seems like I have less time now than I’ve ever had in my life. And I literally am like w w T F is going on. Are you w what’s happening?

Tamar: Well, look at every time we try to get together to chat. It’s like, oh, I’m just jumping on another call. You should jump on a call. I’m jumping on a call.

Hey, I got 10 minutes. Let’s chat. Right. It’s but here’s the thing is, I think we’re finally doing, we’re doing what we’re passionate. We found something that just fills our cup and we want to do more, but we’ve also. I don’t know about you, but this has also made me realize that I have to prioritize other people in my life.

It’s, can’t be all about my business. I have my partner and honestly, until we broke up a few months ago, I realized I always had one foot out the door. I was always like, well, if he hurts me, I’m planning my own life. I never prioritized him. And so now it might just seem a little busier because. Building Sober Friendships Chosen to take the weekends off.

I’ve chosen to take the evenings off and spend it with him or the people I love.

Lane: That’s it right there. My friend prioritizes the relationships that are important that you want to nurture and grow. So I’m going to tell a little story.

Tamar: Okay. I’m listening.

Lane: It’s been fascinating to me to. Be in the online world and meet these.

I’ve met some incredible humans in the online world that I’ve connected with instantly. And we’ve established these very intimate relationships, but my friends that are in my same city, I’m literally not seeing them. I’m like, what is happening? Where are you? You live four minutes from me. I don’t understand what’s going on.

So there’s like this it’s like I’m living in a different universe.

Tamar: Is that happening to you? Totally. Why does

awkward silence?

Lane: Yeah. What, what is that? What is that about? I’m trying to figure it out because you know, the people that are here in my city, And I’ll call and I’ll FaceTime and I’ll polo and all texts. And I get a response three days later. Okay. I’m going to circle, this is going to come full circle because I go back to love.

Right? If you love me, if you nurture, you want the relationship to grow, then there should be a response. I get like selfish around that. Like, you know, this is this kind of relationship. Nurturing, I would say it’s not that I am, depending on these people. It’s a kind of a mutual respect. If you call me, if you say, Hey lane, I want to hang out, then I’m going to like, okay, let’s put you on the calendar.

I’ve had another really good friend in my city here who we’ve during the pandemic had hour long conversations about, you’ve heard my. You don’t show up. You know, she was just like, nailing me with the hammer. And I had to come to Jesus moment of like, you’re right. I need to prioritize this, or we need to schedule, I need to do this differently.

And it was amazing. And since then, this was like, when the pandemic mid pandemic, I guess since then we’ve had we’re back on track and I’ve known her for, I don’t know, 15 years at least, you know, But the relationships are changing as the world changes. You know, it’s very interesting to me and I don’t like, am I going to see you?

Are we going to meet in person? Right. Like that’s what I’m saying. It’s really interesting to me how this pandemic, although the world has become smaller, it’s actually gotten larger. Like I have friends all over the globe. Yeah.

Tamar: It’s super. Super cool. I mean, I, it’s surreal, I think sometimes because I’ve always looked at things as this is really cool.

I get very excited very quickly as do you know, like I just, when I’m passionate about something, I could talk about it for hours. But it’s just like, I think. And we experienced this in recovery too. Right? When you’re sharing your story and you’re, you’re talking about it and you get that relate-ability.

I think those of us in the space as entrepreneurs, we’re so passionate about what we do. We’re not going to take no for an answer. And when we get really excited and we can meet at any time and we know what it’s like to be able to have to like schedule things and, and book a call. Like, I think that’s a natural go-to is yeah.

Book booked me in your calendar. Like let’s set a date cause we’re used to having to deal, but the people in our lives. That, you know, we don’t do that. We’re not going to follow up and say, Hey, book me in your calendar. You know, you have to call them up and say, let’s plan a date on Friday or whatever. But it, it is different like where I think we’re used to communicating that way.

Whereas, you know, people who aren’t in the space are not

Lane: your point. It changes it’s it’s changed the way I relate to people in my hometown. It’s it’s yeah. Continuing to grow. That’s what it’s about.

Tamar: It’s

Lane: exciting. So let’s talk about what we’re doing, you and I, cause I’m fricking thrilled about it. I discovered, well, not discovered, but I’m a biohacker of about 22 years and 20.

I’m going to be 25. So yeah, probably 22 years now, 23. And. Through my term of biohacking and hanging out with the biohacking community and being known in that world. I started getting into neuroscience about God, my son. Building Sober Friendships I always do things by my son’s age. So I’m going to say about seven years ago, before neuroscience kind of started picking up and it changed the way that I started to practice.

It started, it changed the way that I started seeing the world, you know, and how I related to people. And I gave people more space. And you nerd out on neuroscience as well. How did you find?

Tamar: I started with just coaching. Right. But I thought there’s gotta be something better out there because everybody’s doing life coaching.

Everybody’s doing recovery coaching. And I really wanted to focus on, I like to know the why behind everything. Like, I’m that kid that’s like, well, why, why? Right. And. You know, I started hearing neuroscience and one of the programs that I teach called why B12, the company that has created, created a neuroscience program called the neuro change, man.

And so I thought, well, this is really cool. This can add to my tools. And especially when they started talking about neuroplasticity, which as you know, is one of my favorite words now and took me a while to say that, but I’ve changed my brain so that I can say it. And I just thought, wow, how cool is this to understand how the brain works and how it can change and be able to help others create lasting change?

Because I think. For me, I had you know, I had started to create a life for myself where I never wanted to go back to my old way of living. Right. When I drove into the role of podcasting and entrepreneurship, I really, really wanted to continue on with this. And I thought, well, science, I mean, no, nobody can dispute that.

Cause I think there’s so much stuff out there right now. It’s like, try this program, try this one. Well, if I can give you 50 exercises, That all around the science of rewiring your brain. I thought that was a win-win and I needed it for my own journey. So I never ever teach anything. I haven’t done it myself and I actually used it to quit my job and become a full-time entrepreneur.

I love that.

Lane: I freaking love it. Yeah. We teach what we need to understand completely, right? Yeah. Mine is mindfulness meditation. I have to constantly keep on top of that. And yours is this neuro change changing the way the brain is. So when we got together and nerd out we created something for you guys to listen to ladies, friends, and listeners.

And tomorrow, why don’t you share a little bit of how this is going to play out?

Tamar: It’s this that gets me excited. Like it really does. So I think, you know, what we always start off with is purpose and flow. Right. And I think it’s under it, it’s really great to understand, okay, what do I want for my life?

What are my values? Right. And how do I get into that state of flow by doing the things I’m passionate about? It gives you a clear direction, right? So we’re going to start with that. You have a great, great mindfulness practice meditation after that, that rounds it off nicely. But each topic that we go into really builds upon one another Building Sober Friendships.

You know, we started with beliefs because really, you know, two people can have the same goal, and do the same things to get to that goal, but it’s the person who believes in their ability to accomplish it. That is going to achieve it. And then from there, we get into the mindset and, you know, People are really shocked Building Sober Friendships

They think that they have a growth mindset. It’s like, oh yeah, I love to try new things, but they’re afraid to make mistakes. And when you start to ask the most questions,

Lane: right? Oh yeah. The growth mindset I could go off on that. It’s like people brag about, oh yeah, I have the open mind. I have growth.

I’m all about it. This is why your, this is why you’ve hired me to coach you. Or you’ve hired tomorrow to coach you because your mindset is everything. It gets you to the next level with whatever you want in your life. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s our third topic, right? Third topics, number three. And number four Building Sober Friendships

Oh yes.

Tamar: My favorite hat. Yeah. Do you want to say it? I can tell you’re excited to say it. Well,

Lane: it’s emotional intelligence. E I. Yeah, people don’t talk about this and it makes me crazy. I’m always like read the room. Like that’s, that’s, that’s like short answer for emotional intelligence for me.

Like, if you can read the room and know you’re good, we’re going to, we’re going to play well together. What do you, what do you, what’s your kind of quick AI?

Tamar: It can unlock one’s on top potential. Yes. Right. Emotional awareness. I just actually taught this to a group of women and one of them that the following week, I always ask them, you know, how did you practice this?

And one of them said tomorrow, I got really angry. Something triggered me at work. And I, I just sat there for a second and thought, okay, where am I feeling? I’m missing my body. Like she was replaying it all. And her ability to change the result because she didn’t react to. You know, she was angry at the time was just incredible.

And so it really can, it can save you from a lot of heart that’s for sure.

Lane: And again, it’s something that you don’t think about because you’re. I find from working with people in this arena that they think I’ve got this. Meanwhile, the relationships are suffering. Building Sober Friendships They’re not getting paid. What they want to their health is, you know, not as sick.

And I’m not saying this to be a Debbie downer here. I’m just saying this to kind of crack open space to be open to this conversation about emotional awareness or emotional intelligence. That’s all just saying. I love that. Yeah. What’s the number? Okay. So that’s week four.

Tamar: Week five, the subconscious mind, right?

Internal motivation. And I love this because the example I use is have you ever bought her. And, you know, you start to notice that car everywhere and you know, I’ve had people tell me like, oh, I can’t believe everybody’s buying the same car that I have. It’s like, no, no, no, no, no. There, those cars existed before you bought the car, but it’s because now it’s in your conscious awareness, right?

It’s something you’re just going to notice. And so the subconscious mind is really learning how to prime our world, right. Our environment. And how do we make things more automated? Yes,

Lane: everything becomes automated. And then we close up in week six with our favorite topic, brain health, or neuro-plasticity thinking

Tamar: winning.

Yes, BrainHealth is so important. And just understanding that we are, we are not who we are, right? The brain we’re born with is not the brain we die with. And a lot of people will say, ah, that’s just who I am. I’ve always been that way. Well, you know what I call on that.

That’s a bunch of, you know, so I think that your brain can

Lane: change. It can change. And I look at this from.

We’re all aging forward. We’re not aging backward. And so as we age, I’m very cognizant of mental wellness. Building Sober Friendships And the neuroplasticity is I don’t want to I’ve had to put my mother-in-law into a house. My grandfather passed from Alzheimer’s. Building Sober Friendships So I know that this is something that I need to be aware of because it’s, it’s, it’s in my actual DNA, but then I’ve been up close with it.

And I’m very much familiar with the Breslin protocol and have worked on that with clients. So I. This topic I’m super passionate about because we can change our brains. So that is week six that we’re going to be serving up.

And then, oh, the other thing that’s really exciting about this is that with every, with every topic, we also, I am sharing a mindfulness practice around this specific topic. So I’m, I’m excited about this because it’s. Hey, I get to work with you on it, but it’s also, it’s going to sh you know, open our listeners up to more in their life, I think.

Tamar: Right. I know it’s, you know, if you have the willingness, that’s what counts, right? It’s doing those small things every day, getting you in the right direction. And before, you know, it you’ll literally stop and turn around and be like, I can’t believe how far I’ve come. And we don’t, you know, when we talked about that today, And we don’t take the time to do that.

Right. So it’s just, it’s such an amazing journey. I love all these topics. I mean, I could talk all day about them and I’m so grateful that we’re doing this together. Cause you’re, you know, the meditation practice at the end of it. I think it just, it really solidifies it. Right. It’s like, let’s really get that into the brain.

Lane: Yes. That’s what we want. So it’d be looking for these episodes that are going to be coming out. We’re going to serve it on up to. Tomorrow. Is there anything else that you want to share? How are people going to find you? Do you want to give out your, the road forward the w where do they, where are they go?


Tamar: podcast? So the easiest place where everything is located is my website, which is And I love to hang out on Instagram, which is the road beyond recovery, which is also the name of my podcast, the road beyond recovery podcast. So I thought I’d keep it. Keep it easy. I

Lane: love it. Well, friends, I hope you’ve enjoyed the banter of tomorrow.

And I, and finding out more about her. She will be on the show again and be looking for these episodes about changing your brain. I hope you’ll join us. Thanks for being here. My friend, until next time, may you find something bright, something light and something so delicious. It fills you up so you can be the best.

I know you can be. I heard that.

Listen to Tamar’s Episode

episode 64: Sober Friendships and Codependency

Want to Read More?